Charlot Henzen - Head of 'Sync', Domino Publishing, London

I met Charlot when she was recording in The Nutshed Studio in Clara, Co.Offaly, Ireland with her band 'I kissed Charles' back in the Noughties. The were energetic and full of fun. I thought they may well 'make it'.  
Charlot has 'made it' ok, but slightly differently than we expected .... hear her story here!  

If you'd like to buy me a coffee -  Many Thanks ...

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/GeniusMove

Transcript

Copy

Paul Brewer:
How we doin'?

Charlot:
Yeah, great, thanks. Just like, it's been what, like 12 years or something?

Paul Brewer:
Is it? 12 years? I was wondering, I couldn't remember when it was. I knew it was sort of 10 years plus anyway, so...

Charlot:
Yeah, because I was back in Dublin a month ago for Arnett Music Week and I think I realized

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
I realized

Charlot:
it had

Paul Brewer:
that it

Charlot:
been

Paul Brewer:
had been

Charlot:
10

Paul Brewer:
10

Charlot:
years

Paul Brewer:
years

Charlot:
since

Paul Brewer:
since

Charlot:
I visited

Paul Brewer:
I visited

Charlot:
for the last

Paul Brewer:
for the last

Charlot:
time.

Paul Brewer:
time.

Charlot:
Didn't

Paul Brewer:
Didn't

Charlot:
feel

Paul Brewer:
feel

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
that,

Charlot:
but

Paul Brewer:
but... Yeah, it

Charlot:
jeez,

Paul Brewer:
doesn't do it.

Charlot:
it's mad.

Paul Brewer:
So. If I ask you any questions you don't want to answer, just don't answer, you know, it's like, you know, and I'll send you a copy of the edited podcast for you to have a quick listen, you know, just to prove it. So you can relax from that point that you won't be hanging anybody or anything like that.

Charlot:
Sounds

Paul Brewer:
So,

Charlot:
good.

Paul Brewer:
like when we met 12 years ago, whatever it was. Longer probably.

Charlot:
Longer probably.

Paul Brewer:
Yeah.

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
think

Paul Brewer:
almost

Charlot:
almost 15.

Paul Brewer:
15. Christ almighty.

Charlot:
Hahaha

Paul Brewer:
What age were you then? And like you were you were in you were in Ireland doing a bit of recording for an album, wasn't it?

Charlot:
Yeah,

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
yeah,

Paul Brewer:
how

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
did

Charlot:
I must

Paul Brewer:
how

Charlot:
have

Paul Brewer:
did all

Charlot:
been...

Paul Brewer:
that happen?

Charlot:
I think I was 16 at the time.

Paul Brewer:
16!

Charlot:
Yeah,

Paul Brewer:
Christ

Charlot:
yeah, we

Paul Brewer:
almighty!

Charlot:
were kids.

Paul Brewer:
Jesus!

Charlot:
Yeah, that's insane if I think about it now.

Paul Brewer:
Yeah. Wow. But it still kind of feels like it was a few years

Charlot:
But

Paul Brewer:
back.

Charlot:
it

Paul Brewer:
You know,

Charlot:
still

Paul Brewer:
it's

Charlot:
kind

Paul Brewer:
like,

Charlot:
of feels

Paul Brewer:
I don't

Charlot:
like it was a few years back,

Paul Brewer:
know,

Charlot:
you know, it's like, I don't know, I

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
remember

Paul Brewer:
remember

Charlot:
everything

Paul Brewer:
everything

Charlot:
very clearly. So it definitely made a huge impression, I think.

Paul Brewer:
very clearly. So it definitely made a huge impression, I think. And how did that all how did that all happen? Like, how did you end up in Ireland? How did you end up making an album? How did you end up working with Phil?

Charlot:
Well, the Ireland part was pretty random actually.

Paul Brewer:
So I think...

Charlot:
So I think by the time we were recording our album, I think we had been together for... I think we started when I was 14, 15. So I think

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
were

Paul Brewer:
we were

Charlot:
together

Paul Brewer:
together

Charlot:
for like

Paul Brewer:
for

Charlot:
maybe

Paul Brewer:
like,

Charlot:
two,

Paul Brewer:
really two

Charlot:
three

Paul Brewer:
or

Charlot:
years.

Paul Brewer:
three years.

Charlot:
And

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
since

Paul Brewer:
since

Charlot:
I started

Paul Brewer:
I started

Charlot:
a band,

Paul Brewer:
that band,

Charlot:
we just

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
got

Paul Brewer:
just

Charlot:
picked

Paul Brewer:
got picked

Charlot:
up quite

Paul Brewer:
up quite

Charlot:
quickly.

Paul Brewer:
quickly.

Charlot:
We...

Paul Brewer:
We

Charlot:
got signed

Paul Brewer:
got signed

Charlot:
within

Paul Brewer:
within

Charlot:
a year,

Paul Brewer:
a year,

Charlot:
released

Paul Brewer:
released

Charlot:
an EP,

Paul Brewer:
an EP,

Charlot:
got picked

Paul Brewer:
got

Charlot:
up

Paul Brewer:
picked

Charlot:
by,

Paul Brewer:
up by,

Charlot:
you know,

Paul Brewer:
you know,

Charlot:
all the Dutch

Paul Brewer:
all the Dutch

Charlot:
press

Paul Brewer:
press.

Charlot:
because

Paul Brewer:
Because

Charlot:
I'm Dutch.

Paul Brewer:
I'm Dutch,

Charlot:
So

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
we were mainly

Paul Brewer:
we were mainly

Charlot:
operating

Paul Brewer:
operating

Charlot:
in the Netherlands

Paul Brewer:
in the Netherlands

Charlot:
at the time.

Paul Brewer:
at the time.

Charlot:
Um, but yeah, I was

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
was like

Charlot:
15

Paul Brewer:
15

Charlot:
at the

Paul Brewer:
at

Charlot:
time.

Paul Brewer:
the time,

Charlot:
Um, we were

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
from

Paul Brewer:
were

Charlot:
a really

Paul Brewer:
from a really

Charlot:
small

Paul Brewer:
small

Charlot:
town,

Paul Brewer:
town

Charlot:
um, in the countryside.

Paul Brewer:
in the countryside,

Charlot:
So

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
honestly,

Paul Brewer:
honestly

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
didn't

Paul Brewer:
didn't

Charlot:
have a

Paul Brewer:
have

Charlot:
clue

Paul Brewer:
a clue

Charlot:
what we

Paul Brewer:
what

Charlot:
were

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
doing,

Paul Brewer:
were doing.

Charlot:
but I think

Paul Brewer:
But I

Charlot:
that's

Paul Brewer:
think that's

Charlot:
probably

Paul Brewer:
probably

Charlot:
why it

Paul Brewer:
why

Charlot:
was

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
so

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
fun

Paul Brewer:
so fun

Charlot:
and why,

Paul Brewer:
and why

Charlot:
you know, we just

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
went

Paul Brewer:
just went

Charlot:
into

Paul Brewer:
into

Charlot:
it like.

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
head

Paul Brewer:
head

Charlot:
first

Paul Brewer:
first

Charlot:
and I,

Paul Brewer:
and like,

Charlot:
yeah.

Paul Brewer:
yeah.

Charlot:
And then I think by the time

Paul Brewer:
time

Charlot:
we, the album

Paul Brewer:
the album

Charlot:
was kind

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
on the

Paul Brewer:
of

Charlot:
table,

Paul Brewer:
on the table

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
started

Paul Brewer:
started

Charlot:
recording

Paul Brewer:
recording

Charlot:
with

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
a Dutch

Paul Brewer:
a Dutch

Charlot:
producer

Paul Brewer:
producer

Charlot:
and engineer.

Paul Brewer:
and engineer

Charlot:
And I

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
think

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
did

Paul Brewer:
we did

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
a few

Paul Brewer:
a few

Charlot:
songs

Paul Brewer:
songs

Charlot:
with them

Paul Brewer:
with them

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
I really

Paul Brewer:
I really

Charlot:
enjoyed

Paul Brewer:
enjoyed

Charlot:
it because

Paul Brewer:
it because

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
was kind

Paul Brewer:
I was kind

Charlot:
of into

Paul Brewer:
of

Charlot:
going

Paul Brewer:
going

Charlot:
a bit

Paul Brewer:
a bit

Charlot:
more into

Paul Brewer:
more into

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
more like

Paul Brewer:
more like

Charlot:
pop

Paul Brewer:
pop

Charlot:
mainstream

Paul Brewer:
mainstream

Charlot:
direction.

Paul Brewer:
direction

Charlot:
Cause

Paul Brewer:
because

Charlot:
what we did

Paul Brewer:
what

Charlot:
was

Paul Brewer:
we did

Charlot:
mainly

Paul Brewer:
was maybe

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
like 160

Charlot:
160 BPM

Paul Brewer:
BPM

Charlot:
pop

Paul Brewer:
pop

Charlot:
rock

Paul Brewer:
rock

Charlot:
with

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
me

Paul Brewer:
me

Charlot:
and my

Paul Brewer:
and my

Charlot:
microcore

Paul Brewer:
micro-core

Charlot:
just

Paul Brewer:
just

Charlot:
running

Paul Brewer:
running

Charlot:
around,

Paul Brewer:
around

Charlot:
singing

Paul Brewer:
singing

Charlot:
about

Paul Brewer:
about

Charlot:
my

Paul Brewer:
my like

Charlot:
teen

Paul Brewer:
teen

Charlot:
drama,

Paul Brewer:
drama

Charlot:
basically.

Paul Brewer:
basically.

Charlot:
And, um.

Paul Brewer:
Could have worked. Ha ha ha.

Charlot:
I mean, I guess it worked, you know? But yeah, we started

Paul Brewer:
I started

Charlot:
recording

Paul Brewer:
recording

Charlot:
with

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
these

Paul Brewer:
these

Charlot:
different

Paul Brewer:
different

Charlot:
people

Paul Brewer:
people

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
I thought

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
it

Paul Brewer:
thought

Charlot:
was

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
great,

Paul Brewer:
was great

Charlot:
but I

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
think

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
the guys,

Paul Brewer:
the guys,

Charlot:
it was

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
was like

Charlot:
me and

Paul Brewer:
me

Charlot:
three

Paul Brewer:
and three

Charlot:
guys,

Paul Brewer:
guys,

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
maybe

Paul Brewer:
maybe

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
was a

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
bit,

Paul Brewer:
a bit,

Charlot:
there was

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
a bit

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
bit

Charlot:
disconnect,

Paul Brewer:
of a disconnect

Charlot:
I think,

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
in what

Paul Brewer:
in

Charlot:
they

Paul Brewer:
what

Charlot:
had

Paul Brewer:
they

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
had

Charlot:
mind

Paul Brewer:
in mind

Charlot:
creatively.

Paul Brewer:
creatively.

Charlot:
So I

Paul Brewer:
So

Charlot:
think

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
after

Paul Brewer:
after...

Charlot:
we recorded

Paul Brewer:
recorded

Charlot:
the first

Paul Brewer:
the first

Charlot:
few

Paul Brewer:
few

Charlot:
songs,

Paul Brewer:
songs

Charlot:
we decided

Paul Brewer:
we decided

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
maybe

Paul Brewer:
maybe

Charlot:
we...

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
wouldn't

Paul Brewer:
wouldn't

Charlot:
do the rest

Paul Brewer:
do the

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
rest

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
of

Charlot:
album

Paul Brewer:
the album

Charlot:
with them.

Paul Brewer:
with them

Charlot:
And also

Paul Brewer:
and also

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
i think

Charlot:
the studio

Paul Brewer:
the studio

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
we recorded

Paul Brewer:
we recorded

Charlot:
that was

Paul Brewer:
that was

Charlot:
really

Paul Brewer:
really

Charlot:
fucking

Paul Brewer:
fucking

Charlot:
expensive.

Paul Brewer:
expensive

Charlot:
And,

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
you know,

Paul Brewer:
you know

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
weren't

Paul Brewer:
weren't

Charlot:
professional

Paul Brewer:
professional

Charlot:
musicians

Paul Brewer:
musicians

Charlot:
or something.

Paul Brewer:
or something

Charlot:
So

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
there was

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
some

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
some like

Charlot:
ADHD

Paul Brewer:
adhd

Charlot:
in the band.

Paul Brewer:
in the band

Charlot:
So I

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
think

Paul Brewer:
i think

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
needed

Paul Brewer:
needed

Charlot:
a little

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
bit

Paul Brewer:
little

Charlot:
more

Paul Brewer:
bit more

Charlot:
time

Paul Brewer:
time

Charlot:
than

Paul Brewer:
than

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
three

Paul Brewer:
three

Charlot:
full

Paul Brewer:
full

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
pressure

Paul Brewer:
pressure

Charlot:
days

Paul Brewer:
days

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
in

Charlot:
that really

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
expensive

Paul Brewer:
really expensive

Charlot:
studio. So I think that's where

Paul Brewer:
That's

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
where

Charlot:
kind

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
paused.

Paul Brewer:
of paused.

Charlot:
And then.

Paul Brewer:
And then

Charlot:
our manager

Paul Brewer:
our manager,

Charlot:
think

Paul Brewer:
I think,

Charlot:
asked

Paul Brewer:
asked

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
the

Charlot:
other producer

Paul Brewer:
other producer

Charlot:
to recommend

Paul Brewer:
to recommend

Charlot:
someone

Paul Brewer:
someone

Charlot:
else.

Paul Brewer:
else.

Charlot:
And I

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
think

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
his

Paul Brewer:
his

Charlot:
manager

Paul Brewer:
manager...

Charlot:
was also connected

Paul Brewer:
connected

Charlot:
to Phil

Paul Brewer:
to Phil

Charlot:
Hayes.

Paul Brewer:
Hayes. Right.

Charlot:
So,

Paul Brewer:
So

Charlot:
I mean,

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
mean

Charlot:
didn't

Paul Brewer:
I didn't

Charlot:
know

Paul Brewer:
know

Charlot:
much

Paul Brewer:
much

Charlot:
about

Paul Brewer:
about

Charlot:
him at

Paul Brewer:
him

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
at

Charlot:
time,

Paul Brewer:
the time

Charlot:
but I

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
did

Paul Brewer:
I did

Charlot:
know

Paul Brewer:
know

Charlot:
Belex

Paul Brewer:
Bellix

Charlot:
One

Paul Brewer:
One

Charlot:
because

Paul Brewer:
because

Charlot:
of the

Paul Brewer:
of DOC

Charlot:
OC and I

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
was

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
huge

Paul Brewer:
a huge

Charlot:
fan

Paul Brewer:
fan

Charlot:
of the

Paul Brewer:
of

Charlot:
OC.

Paul Brewer:
DOC

Charlot:
So I was like...

Paul Brewer:
so I was like

Charlot:
Oh, that's

Paul Brewer:
oh that's

Charlot:
cool,

Paul Brewer:
cool

Charlot:
because

Paul Brewer:
because

Charlot:
then we're

Paul Brewer:
they

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
were

Charlot:
a way

Paul Brewer:
in a way

Charlot:
linked

Paul Brewer:
linked

Charlot:
to the

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
OC

Paul Brewer:
DOC

Charlot:
soundtrack.

Paul Brewer:
soundtrack.

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
was

Paul Brewer:
that was

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
16

Paul Brewer:
15

Charlot:
year old

Paul Brewer:
year

Charlot:
logic

Paul Brewer:
old logic

Charlot:
at the

Paul Brewer:
at

Charlot:
time,

Paul Brewer:
the time.

Charlot:
you know. And then I was like, Ireland, oh my God, we get to go to Ireland for this. I had never been on a plane, you know, so I was like, that's fucking exciting. And so, yeah, our parents drove us to the airport. We brought our gear. I

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
had a

Paul Brewer:
had

Charlot:
Juno

Paul Brewer:
a Juno

Charlot:
60

Paul Brewer:
60

Charlot:
at the time,

Paul Brewer:
at the time,

Charlot:
which was really

Paul Brewer:
which was

Charlot:
heavy.

Paul Brewer:
really heavy,

Charlot:
And in its flight

Paul Brewer:
and in its

Charlot:
case,

Paul Brewer:
flight

Charlot:
I had

Paul Brewer:
case

Charlot:
to like

Paul Brewer:
I had to like,

Charlot:
you know, queue

Paul Brewer:
you know,

Charlot:
for

Paul Brewer:
queue

Charlot:
a long time

Paul Brewer:
for a long

Charlot:
to get

Paul Brewer:
time

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
to get

Charlot:
on the

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
plane

Paul Brewer:
on the

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
plane

Charlot:
stuff.

Paul Brewer:
and stuff.

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
had my

Paul Brewer:
had

Charlot:
name

Paul Brewer:
my name

Charlot:
wrong

Paul Brewer:
wrong

Charlot:
on my

Paul Brewer:
on

Charlot:
boarding

Paul Brewer:
my boarding

Charlot:
pass.

Paul Brewer:
pass.

Charlot:
It was

Paul Brewer:
It was

Charlot:
all like

Paul Brewer:
all

Charlot:
there

Paul Brewer:
like,

Charlot:
were

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
a lot

Paul Brewer:
were

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
lot of

Charlot:
firsts.

Paul Brewer:
like, firsts.

Charlot:
But it was

Paul Brewer:
But

Charlot:
incredible.

Paul Brewer:
it was incredible.

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
spent

Paul Brewer:
we spent

Charlot:
maybe

Paul Brewer:
maybe

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
like,

Charlot:
two

Paul Brewer:
two

Charlot:
weeks

Paul Brewer:
weeks

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
in

Charlot:
Clara

Paul Brewer:
Clara.

Charlot:
recording

Paul Brewer:
Recording

Charlot:
with Phil.

Paul Brewer:
with Phil,

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
played

Paul Brewer:
we played

Charlot:
like football

Paul Brewer:
like football

Charlot:
on our lunch

Paul Brewer:
or lunch

Charlot:
breaks

Paul Brewer:
breaks,

Charlot:
and,

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
you know,

Paul Brewer:
know

Charlot:
so.

Paul Brewer:
Excellent

Charlot:
And. And then we recorded some other bits in the Sun Studios in Dublin as well. which is where we met many people and I ended up going back there a few years afterwards for like little work experience and stuff as well, but I think we'll get to that.

Paul Brewer:
for like little work experience and stuff as well, but I think we'll get to that. Cool. So, like that was your sort of first experience with the music base.

Charlot:
Yeah.

Paul Brewer:
So what has you in London? And

Charlot:
Wow,

Paul Brewer:
how did you

Charlot:
yeah,

Paul Brewer:
get

Charlot:
that's

Paul Brewer:
there?

Charlot:
fast forward 15 years.

Paul Brewer:
Yeah

Charlot:
So I studied international music management because I think because

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
because

Charlot:
was

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
so

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
young

Paul Brewer:
so young

Charlot:
when we

Paul Brewer:
when

Charlot:
kind

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
had our

Paul Brewer:
of had

Charlot:
peak

Paul Brewer:
our peak

Charlot:
with the

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
band,

Paul Brewer:
the band

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
was just

Paul Brewer:
I was

Charlot:
too

Paul Brewer:
just too

Charlot:
scared

Paul Brewer:
scared

Charlot:
to go

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
go

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
a music

Charlot:
academy

Paul Brewer:
academy

Charlot:
because I

Paul Brewer:
because

Charlot:
was like,

Paul Brewer:
I was

Charlot:
I've

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
already

Paul Brewer:
I've already

Charlot:
kind of

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
had

Paul Brewer:
of had

Charlot:
like these

Paul Brewer:
these

Charlot:
big gigs

Paul Brewer:
big gigs

Charlot:
and we've

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
had,

Paul Brewer:
we've had

Charlot:
you know, some

Paul Brewer:
some

Charlot:
significant

Paul Brewer:
significant

Charlot:
success.

Paul Brewer:
success

Charlot:
So I

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
think

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
was just really

Paul Brewer:
was just

Charlot:
scared

Paul Brewer:
really scared

Charlot:
that maybe,

Paul Brewer:
that maybe I

Charlot:
I don't know,

Paul Brewer:
don't

Charlot:
they wouldn't

Paul Brewer:
know, they

Charlot:
think

Paul Brewer:
wouldn't

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
I was

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
good

Paul Brewer:
I was

Charlot:
enough.

Paul Brewer:
good enough

Charlot:
So I was

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
just

Paul Brewer:
I was

Charlot:
like,

Paul Brewer:
just

Charlot:
you know

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
what?

Paul Brewer:
you know what,

Charlot:
I always

Paul Brewer:
I always

Charlot:
really enjoyed

Paul Brewer:
really enjoyed

Charlot:
the business

Paul Brewer:
the business

Charlot:
side of

Paul Brewer:
side

Charlot:
things.

Paul Brewer:
of things

Charlot:
Even though

Paul Brewer:
even

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
though

Charlot:
had

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
had

Charlot:
a management

Paul Brewer:
like a management

Charlot:
and a

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
booking agent and stuff, I was handling all the merch and like our administration and all the logistics

Paul Brewer:
logistics

Charlot:
and stuff. I

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
just,

Paul Brewer:
stuff.

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
I just,

Charlot:
loved that

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
part.

Paul Brewer:
love that

Charlot:
I loved

Paul Brewer:
part.

Charlot:
kind of like arranging everything. So... Yeah, I think I was like,

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
I want to study

Paul Brewer:
wanted to

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
study

Charlot:
English

Paul Brewer:
in English

Charlot:
because

Paul Brewer:
because

Charlot:
I wanted

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
wanted to

Charlot:
improve

Paul Brewer:
improve

Charlot:
my language,

Paul Brewer:
my language

Charlot:
also

Paul Brewer:
also

Charlot:
for

Paul Brewer:
for

Charlot:
songwriting

Paul Brewer:
songwriting

Charlot:
purposes.

Paul Brewer:
purposes

Charlot:
But

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
I loved

Paul Brewer:
I loved

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
music

Charlot:
too much

Paul Brewer:
too

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
much

Charlot:
just

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
study

Paul Brewer:
just study

Charlot:
language

Paul Brewer:
language

Charlot:
basically.

Paul Brewer:
basically

Charlot:
So I

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
was like,

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
you

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
know

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
what,

Paul Brewer:
you know what

Charlot:
there is

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
this course

Paul Brewer:
is this course

Charlot:
out there

Paul Brewer:
out

Charlot:
which is

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
called

Paul Brewer:
which is

Charlot:
International

Paul Brewer:
called International

Charlot:
Music

Paul Brewer:
Music

Charlot:
Management.

Paul Brewer:
Language Where did you study that?

Charlot:
It's in

Paul Brewer:
It's

Charlot:
Haarlem,

Paul Brewer:
in Haarlem

Charlot:
which is

Paul Brewer:
which is

Charlot:
a city

Paul Brewer:
a city

Charlot:
really close

Paul Brewer:
really close

Charlot:
to Amsterdam.

Paul Brewer:
to Amsterdam Alright, okay

Charlot:
So I lived

Paul Brewer:
So I

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
lived

Charlot:
Amsterdam

Paul Brewer:
in Amsterdam

Charlot:
and it was

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
it was

Charlot:
20

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
minutes

Paul Brewer:
20 minutes

Charlot:
by train

Paul Brewer:
Thanks for watching!

Charlot:
because yeah, that

Paul Brewer:
Yeah,

Charlot:
was

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
one

Paul Brewer:
the

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
one

Charlot:
was

Paul Brewer:
that was

Charlot:
in English

Paul Brewer:
in English

Charlot:
and it was

Paul Brewer:
and it was

Charlot:
not an

Paul Brewer:
not an

Charlot:
arts

Paul Brewer:
arts

Charlot:
bachelor,

Paul Brewer:
bachelor

Charlot:
but it was

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
business

Paul Brewer:
was a business

Charlot:
bachelor,

Paul Brewer:
bachelor

Charlot:
which

Paul Brewer:
which

Charlot:
I thought

Paul Brewer:
I thought

Charlot:
would be

Paul Brewer:
would be

Charlot:
very

Paul Brewer:
very

Charlot:
sensible,

Paul Brewer:
sensible,

Charlot:
you know?

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
Or

Paul Brewer:
know?

Charlot:
maybe

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
my

Paul Brewer:
then,

Charlot:
parents

Paul Brewer:
oh, maybe my parents

Charlot:
thought that.

Paul Brewer:
thought that. They

Charlot:
It

Paul Brewer:
didn't

Charlot:
didn't push me,

Paul Brewer:
push

Charlot:
but they

Paul Brewer:
me

Charlot:
were

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
like,

Paul Brewer:
they were like,

Charlot:
yeah,

Paul Brewer:
yeah, that's probably

Charlot:
that's

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
probably

Paul Brewer:
good decision.

Charlot:
a good decision. And I liked the extra challenge

Paul Brewer:
extra challenge

Charlot:
of it being

Paul Brewer:
of it being

Charlot:
in.

Paul Brewer:
in...

Charlot:
you know, not my native language. So

Paul Brewer:
So

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
in my third

Paul Brewer:
in my third

Charlot:
year when

Paul Brewer:
year

Charlot:
I had to

Paul Brewer:
when

Charlot:
do

Paul Brewer:
I had

Charlot:
an

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
internship,

Paul Brewer:
do an internship

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
got into

Paul Brewer:
got into

Charlot:
SYNC.

Paul Brewer:
sync.

Charlot:
I did an

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
internship

Paul Brewer:
did an internship

Charlot:
with

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
a music

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
supervision

Paul Brewer:
music supervision

Charlot:
company

Paul Brewer:
company

Charlot:
in Amsterdam.

Paul Brewer:
in Amsterdam

Charlot:
And

Paul Brewer:
and...

Charlot:
I really I think I

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
did

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
did

Charlot:
a minor

Paul Brewer:
a minor

Charlot:
at

Paul Brewer:
at

Charlot:
uni

Paul Brewer:
uni

Charlot:
about

Paul Brewer:
about

Charlot:
like music

Paul Brewer:
music

Charlot:
publishing

Paul Brewer:
publishing

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
SYNC.

Paul Brewer:
sync.

Charlot:
I did an

Paul Brewer:
I did

Charlot:
exchange

Paul Brewer:
an exchange

Charlot:
with Berklee

Paul Brewer:
with Berklee

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
in

Charlot:
Boston.

Paul Brewer:
Boston,

Charlot:
which was

Paul Brewer:
which

Charlot:
more

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
about

Paul Brewer:
more about

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
music

Charlot:
licensing

Paul Brewer:
licensing

Charlot:
and sync.

Paul Brewer:
and sync.

Charlot:
We visited

Paul Brewer:
We visited

Charlot:
some

Paul Brewer:
some

Charlot:
ad

Paul Brewer:
ad

Charlot:
agencies

Paul Brewer:
agencies

Charlot:
and stuff.

Paul Brewer:
and stuff.

Charlot:
And then, yeah, in my

Paul Brewer:
In

Charlot:
internship,

Paul Brewer:
my internship,

Charlot:
I got to

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
do

Paul Brewer:
got to

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
do music

Charlot:
research

Paul Brewer:
research

Charlot:
for

Paul Brewer:
for

Charlot:
ads.

Paul Brewer:
ads.

Charlot:
I got

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
got to

Charlot:
produce,

Paul Brewer:
produce.

Charlot:
I wasn't

Paul Brewer:
I wasn't

Charlot:
producing,

Paul Brewer:
producing,

Charlot:
but I was

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
kind

Paul Brewer:
I was

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
project

Paul Brewer:
of project

Charlot:
managing

Paul Brewer:
managing.

Charlot:
other composers, demoing for ads, for bespoke jobs, basically. And I did a lot of copyright law. and that kind of stuff at

Paul Brewer:
stuff

Charlot:
school.

Paul Brewer:
at school

Charlot:
So

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
yeah, it just

Paul Brewer:
yeah

Charlot:
all

Paul Brewer:
just

Charlot:
kind of

Paul Brewer:
all

Charlot:
started

Paul Brewer:
kind of started

Charlot:
to take

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
shape.

Paul Brewer:
take shape

Charlot:
I think at

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
the time

Paul Brewer:
get the

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
time

Charlot:
band

Paul Brewer:
the band

Charlot:
was kind

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
falling

Paul Brewer:
of falling

Charlot:
apart

Paul Brewer:
apart

Charlot:
as well.

Paul Brewer:
as well

Charlot:
All the old

Paul Brewer:
all the

Charlot:
guys

Paul Brewer:
old guys

Charlot:
had left

Paul Brewer:
had left

Charlot:
already,

Paul Brewer:
already I

Charlot:
but I kind

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
of

Charlot:
continued

Paul Brewer:
continued

Charlot:
with the

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
name.

Paul Brewer:
the name

Charlot:
It's more

Paul Brewer:
it's

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
more

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
of

Charlot:
solo

Paul Brewer:
a solo

Charlot:
with

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
Session

Paul Brewer:
Session

Charlot:
Band

Paul Brewer:
Band

Charlot:
situation

Paul Brewer:
situation

Charlot:
with signed

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
starting

Charlot:
a different

Paul Brewer:
to a different

Charlot:
label

Paul Brewer:
label

Charlot:
who like,

Paul Brewer:
who like

Charlot:
you know,

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
had

Paul Brewer:
know had

Charlot:
high

Paul Brewer:
high

Charlot:
promises,

Paul Brewer:
promises

Charlot:
but

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
they dropped

Paul Brewer:
they dropped

Charlot:
me after

Paul Brewer:
me after

Charlot:
one single.

Paul Brewer:
one single

Charlot:
So I

Paul Brewer:
So

Charlot:
think at that time,

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
you know, I was like,

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
right,

Paul Brewer:
at that

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
time,

Charlot:
now

Paul Brewer:
you know, I was like, right,

Charlot:
live

Paul Brewer:
I know. At

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
what

Charlot:
Amsterdam.

Paul Brewer:
age were you then, do you think?

Charlot:
2021.

Paul Brewer:
Oh, sure. For the band useless.

Charlot:
I write it and I was just like, oh fuck, like, what do I do now? Because since I was 14, like it was always the band and, you know, there was always a manager and we were always just going, going. So I think

Paul Brewer:
So I think

Charlot:
I kind

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
kind of

Charlot:
gave

Paul Brewer:
gave

Charlot:
myself

Paul Brewer:
myself

Charlot:
a little

Paul Brewer:
a little

Charlot:
reality

Paul Brewer:
reality

Charlot:
check

Paul Brewer:
check

Charlot:
and just

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
realized,

Paul Brewer:
just realised

Charlot:
like, actually,

Paul Brewer:
that actually

Charlot:
I do need

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
do

Charlot:
pay

Paul Brewer:
need

Charlot:
my

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
rent

Paul Brewer:
pay my rent

Charlot:
and I

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
don't

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
want

Paul Brewer:
don't

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
want to

Charlot:
end up being

Paul Brewer:
end up

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
being

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
teacher.

Paul Brewer:
music teacher

Charlot:
Also, I

Paul Brewer:
also

Charlot:
don't

Paul Brewer:
I don't

Charlot:
have the

Paul Brewer:
have the

Charlot:
skills

Paul Brewer:
skills

Charlot:
for that.

Paul Brewer:
for that.

Charlot:
So yeah,

Paul Brewer:
So yeah, I

Charlot:
I did that internship.

Paul Brewer:
did that internship.

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
got offered

Paul Brewer:
got

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
offered

Charlot:
job

Paul Brewer:
a job

Charlot:
there as

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
a junior

Paul Brewer:
as a junior

Charlot:
creative

Paul Brewer:
creative

Charlot:
producer

Paul Brewer:
producer

Charlot:
after my

Paul Brewer:
after

Charlot:
internship.

Paul Brewer:
my internship.

Charlot:
Fully

Paul Brewer:
Fully

Charlot:
went into

Paul Brewer:
went

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
into

Charlot:
the advertisement

Paul Brewer:
the advertisement

Charlot:
industry.

Paul Brewer:
industry.

Charlot:
We worked

Paul Brewer:
We worked

Charlot:
in Germany

Paul Brewer:
in Germany

Charlot:
a lot as

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
well.

Paul Brewer:
lot as well.

Charlot:
So I

Paul Brewer:
So I

Charlot:
very

Paul Brewer:
very

Charlot:
quickly

Paul Brewer:
quickly

Charlot:
kind of expanded

Paul Brewer:
expanded

Charlot:
my network

Paul Brewer:
my network

Charlot:
outside

Paul Brewer:
outside

Charlot:
just the

Paul Brewer:
just

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
the music

Charlot:
industry,

Paul Brewer:
industry,

Charlot:
but

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
more into

Paul Brewer:
more

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
into

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
the...

Charlot:
ad industry and then later on like film and TV as well.

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
So I think I

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
worked

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
there

Paul Brewer:
worked

Charlot:
for

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
two

Paul Brewer:
for

Charlot:
and a

Paul Brewer:
two

Charlot:
half

Paul Brewer:
and a

Charlot:
years,

Paul Brewer:
half years.

Charlot:
then

Paul Brewer:
Then

Charlot:
got offered

Paul Brewer:
got

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
offered

Charlot:
job

Paul Brewer:
a job

Charlot:
by

Paul Brewer:
by

Charlot:
a rights

Paul Brewer:
a rights

Charlot:
holder,

Paul Brewer:
holder,

Charlot:
independent

Paul Brewer:
an independent

Charlot:
publisher

Paul Brewer:
publisher

Charlot:
in Amsterdam.

Paul Brewer:
in Amsterdam.

Charlot:
And I

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
took

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
took

Charlot:
job

Paul Brewer:
the

Charlot:
because

Paul Brewer:
job because

Charlot:
I was,

Paul Brewer:
I was,

Charlot:
I enjoyed

Paul Brewer:
I enjoyed

Charlot:
creating

Paul Brewer:
creating

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
music

Charlot:
with people

Paul Brewer:
with people

Charlot:
for

Paul Brewer:
for

Charlot:
ads.

Paul Brewer:
ads.

Charlot:
Again,

Paul Brewer:
Again,

Charlot:
I wasn't

Paul Brewer:
I wasn't

Charlot:
playing

Paul Brewer:
playing

Charlot:
music,

Paul Brewer:
music.

Charlot:
I was just kind of on the

Paul Brewer:
Advising

Charlot:
business

Paul Brewer:
or

Charlot:
side, yeah.

Paul Brewer:
producing, I guess.

Charlot:
Yeah,

Paul Brewer:
Yeah,

Charlot:
but

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
as soon

Paul Brewer:
as

Charlot:
as

Paul Brewer:
soon

Charlot:
the ad

Paul Brewer:
as the

Charlot:
was

Paul Brewer:
ad.

Charlot:
out, that meant the end of the song, and...

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
If you're at

Paul Brewer:
if

Charlot:
a rights

Paul Brewer:
you're a

Charlot:
holder,

Paul Brewer:
rights holder...

Charlot:
where I'm still am now, a different one, what I really

Paul Brewer:
really

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
about

Paul Brewer:
about

Charlot:
SYNC

Paul Brewer:
sync

Charlot:
is that

Paul Brewer:
is that

Charlot:
by

Paul Brewer:
by

Charlot:
pitching

Paul Brewer:
pitching

Charlot:
or

Paul Brewer:
or like

Charlot:
creating

Paul Brewer:
creating

Charlot:
placement,

Paul Brewer:
placement,

Charlot:
music placements,

Paul Brewer:
music placement,

Charlot:
you actually

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
get

Paul Brewer:
actually

Charlot:
to contribute

Paul Brewer:
get to contribute

Charlot:
to the

Paul Brewer:
to the

Charlot:
long

Paul Brewer:
long

Charlot:
term

Paul Brewer:
term

Charlot:
career

Paul Brewer:
career

Charlot:
of a writer

Paul Brewer:
of a writer

Charlot:
or artist.

Paul Brewer:
or artist.

Charlot:
Because

Paul Brewer:
You know, because

Charlot:
one SYNC,

Paul Brewer:
one sync,

Charlot:
whether

Paul Brewer:
whether

Charlot:
it's

Paul Brewer:
it's

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
couple

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
couple

Charlot:
hundred

Paul Brewer:
of hundred

Charlot:
quid

Paul Brewer:
quid...

Charlot:
or a lot more, some bands can... record their next EP because of that little sync placement or expand their fan base. So I kind of like the longevity of it. So I did that for three, four years, but it was always the plan to go abroad. I never

Paul Brewer:
I never

Charlot:
really

Paul Brewer:
really

Charlot:
planned

Paul Brewer:
planned

Charlot:
to stay

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
stay

Charlot:
the Netherlands.

Paul Brewer:
in the Netherlands.

Charlot:
It's a very

Paul Brewer:
It's a very

Charlot:
small

Paul Brewer:
small

Charlot:
country.

Paul Brewer:
country.

Charlot:
There's a really

Paul Brewer:
There's a really

Charlot:
interesting

Paul Brewer:
interesting

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
music

Charlot:
industry

Paul Brewer:
industry

Charlot:
and scene,

Paul Brewer:
and scene,

Charlot:
but...

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
It's not

Paul Brewer:
it's not

Charlot:
huge,

Paul Brewer:
huge,

Charlot:
at least not

Paul Brewer:
at least not

Charlot:
on the sync

Paul Brewer:
on the scenic

Charlot:
side,

Paul Brewer:
side,

Charlot:
for

Paul Brewer:
for

Charlot:
independent

Paul Brewer:
independent

Charlot:
music.

Paul Brewer:
music.

Charlot:
And I was

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
always

Paul Brewer:
I was always

Charlot:
like, you

Paul Brewer:
like,

Charlot:
know, an

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
indie

Paul Brewer:
know, an

Charlot:
gal.

Paul Brewer:
indie gal.

Charlot:
So

Paul Brewer:
So

Charlot:
I felt

Paul Brewer:
I felt

Charlot:
like if

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
if

Charlot:
wanted

Paul Brewer:
I wanted

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
do

Paul Brewer:
do

Charlot:
sync

Paul Brewer:
sync

Charlot:
at a certain

Paul Brewer:
at a certain

Charlot:
level

Paul Brewer:
level

Charlot:
with

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
music

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
I was

Paul Brewer:
I was

Charlot:
really

Paul Brewer:
really

Charlot:
passionate

Paul Brewer:
passionate

Charlot:
about,

Paul Brewer:
about

Charlot:
I had to

Paul Brewer:
I had to

Charlot:
move

Paul Brewer:
move,

Charlot:
with pleasure.

Paul Brewer:
with pleasure.

Charlot:
So

Paul Brewer:
So

Charlot:
yeah,

Paul Brewer:
yeah,

Charlot:
I moved

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
moved

Charlot:
London

Paul Brewer:
to London

Charlot:
in 2019.

Paul Brewer:
in 2019,

Charlot:
just before

Paul Brewer:
just before

Charlot:
Brexit,

Paul Brewer:
Brexit,

Charlot:
got really lucky,

Paul Brewer:
got really lucky,

Charlot:
it was

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
nine

Paul Brewer:
was

Charlot:
months

Paul Brewer:
nine

Charlot:
before,

Paul Brewer:
months before.

Charlot:
and worked for a smaller like boutique artist and label services company called Cartel Music Group, did global sync for them, I kind of helped build sync as a service for their artists and clients. And then

Paul Brewer:
And then

Charlot:
in 2021

Paul Brewer:
in 2021,

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
the

Charlot:
head of

Paul Brewer:
head

Charlot:
sync

Paul Brewer:
of sync

Charlot:
at

Paul Brewer:
at

Charlot:
Domino,

Paul Brewer:
Domino

Charlot:
publishing

Paul Brewer:
publishing

Charlot:
and recordings.

Paul Brewer:
and recordings,

Charlot:
She decided

Paul Brewer:
she decided

Charlot:
to leave

Paul Brewer:
to leave

Charlot:
after

Paul Brewer:
after

Charlot:
12

Paul Brewer:
12

Charlot:
years.

Paul Brewer:
years.

Charlot:
And that's

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
where

Paul Brewer:
that's

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
where

Charlot:
came

Paul Brewer:
I came

Charlot:
in.

Paul Brewer:
in. Cool. Yeah,

Charlot:
Yeah, so I've been

Paul Brewer:
so I've

Charlot:
there

Paul Brewer:
been

Charlot:
ever

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
since

Paul Brewer:
ever since

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
I get to

Paul Brewer:
I get

Charlot:
work

Paul Brewer:
to work

Charlot:
with

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
the music

Paul Brewer:
the music

Charlot:
of the

Paul Brewer:
of

Charlot:
bands

Paul Brewer:
the bands

Charlot:
that I

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
bought

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
my

Paul Brewer:
bought

Charlot:
first

Paul Brewer:
my first...

Charlot:
CDs from. So it feels like kind of proper

Paul Brewer:
CDs from, so it's a

Charlot:
full

Paul Brewer:
proper full

Charlot:
circle

Paul Brewer:
circle

Charlot:
situation.

Paul Brewer:
situation. Should you explain what is think?

Charlot:
Yeah, of course. Sync

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
is

Paul Brewer:
think

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
it's the

Charlot:
synchronization

Paul Brewer:
synchronization

Charlot:
or like

Paul Brewer:
or

Charlot:
the pairing

Paul Brewer:
the pairing

Charlot:
between

Paul Brewer:
between

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
music.

Charlot:
and audio visual content. So that could

Paul Brewer:
So that

Charlot:
be

Paul Brewer:
could be

Charlot:
advertisements,

Paul Brewer:
advertisements,

Charlot:
games,

Paul Brewer:
games,

Charlot:
TV,

Paul Brewer:
TV,

Charlot:
film,

Paul Brewer:
film,

Charlot:
trailers,

Paul Brewer:
trailers.

Charlot:
podcasts even. Yeah, so everything that kind of uses music in that way. And there's kind of two sides of it. If you work in sync, there's a creative part. where you pitch for briefs that you receive. So it could be like, oh, for the next season of The Crown, we're looking for music

Paul Brewer:
music,

Charlot:
either from

Paul Brewer:
either from a

Charlot:
a specific

Paul Brewer:
specific

Charlot:
era

Paul Brewer:
era

Charlot:
or a

Paul Brewer:
or

Charlot:
specific

Paul Brewer:
a specific

Charlot:
genre

Paul Brewer:
genre.

Charlot:
or lyrical theme. And you kind of know your catalog. So you search within your catalog and then you make suggestions to the creative person in charge. And then on the other side, there's more like the business side of it, which is negotiating a deal. So we get a lot of direct song requests, like, Oh, you want to use this song by villagers for, I don't know, a certain campaign or a certain movie. And this is the media, the territory, the duration. Is there any exclusivity and the territory? And then we negotiate a proper fee based on. budgets and all of those terms.

Paul Brewer:
Right. So, like, when I was a boy, the idea of Think would have been, you

Charlot:
Mm.

Paul Brewer:
know, it wouldn't have been a cool thing for a band to do.

Charlot:
No it

Paul Brewer:
That's

Charlot:
was Proposella

Paul Brewer:
totally changed

Charlot:
wasn't

Paul Brewer:
now, hasn't

Charlot:
it?

Paul Brewer:
it?

Charlot:
Yeah, yeah it has.

Paul Brewer:
And could that think, the think relationship for a band, to the think business, be a significant part of their income then?

Charlot:
Absolutely. I think part of why that shift

Paul Brewer:
shift

Charlot:
happened

Paul Brewer:
happened

Charlot:
between

Paul Brewer:
between

Charlot:
like, oh

Paul Brewer:
like,

Charlot:
you're

Paul Brewer:
oh

Charlot:
selling

Paul Brewer:
you're selling

Charlot:
out or

Paul Brewer:
out.

Charlot:
you know, you're just selling your soul and it's awful. I mean, obviously historically there's been a few

Paul Brewer:
a bit of

Charlot:
awful

Paul Brewer:
a few awful

Charlot:
bearings

Paul Brewer:
pairings

Charlot:
like that.

Paul Brewer:
like that.

Charlot:
But I guess

Paul Brewer:
But I

Charlot:
what

Paul Brewer:
guess

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
what

Charlot:
learned

Paul Brewer:
we learned

Charlot:
is that

Paul Brewer:
is that

Charlot:
obviously

Paul Brewer:
obviously

Charlot:
artists

Paul Brewer:
artists

Charlot:
stopped

Paul Brewer:
stopped

Charlot:
selling

Paul Brewer:
selling

Charlot:
CDs.

Paul Brewer:
CDs, so

Charlot:
So there was

Paul Brewer:
there

Charlot:
a huge

Paul Brewer:
was a huge

Charlot:
shift

Paul Brewer:
shift

Charlot:
or decrease

Paul Brewer:
or decrease

Charlot:
in

Paul Brewer:
in

Charlot:
income.

Paul Brewer:
income.

Charlot:
So

Paul Brewer:
So

Charlot:
I guess

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
guess

Charlot:
industry

Paul Brewer:
the industry

Charlot:
had to

Paul Brewer:
had

Charlot:
look

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
for

Paul Brewer:
look for

Charlot:
other

Paul Brewer:
other

Charlot:
lucrative

Paul Brewer:
lucrative

Charlot:
ways

Paul Brewer:
ways

Charlot:
to make

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
money

Paul Brewer:
make money, because

Charlot:
because it probably

Paul Brewer:
it probably

Charlot:
took the

Paul Brewer:
took

Charlot:
labels

Paul Brewer:
the labels

Charlot:
a while

Paul Brewer:
a while

Charlot:
to start

Paul Brewer:
to start

Charlot:
spending

Paul Brewer:
spending

Charlot:
less

Paul Brewer:
less

Charlot:
on

Paul Brewer:
on

Charlot:
creating

Paul Brewer:
creating

Charlot:
a record

Paul Brewer:
a record

Charlot:
as well.

Paul Brewer:
as well.

Charlot:
And I guess also, obviously there's been a huge increase in output. I mean, video streaming, Netflix. I mean, there's so many platforms

Paul Brewer:
streaming

Charlot:
right now.

Paul Brewer:
Netflix... So many... Excuse

Charlot:
Bless you. So

Paul Brewer:
me. I might

Charlot:
there's

Paul Brewer:
edit that

Charlot:
just...

Paul Brewer:
out. No, we should leave

Charlot:
I know, we should leave it

Paul Brewer:
it. Maybe, maybe, yeah.

Charlot:
in. It's a very

Paul Brewer:
Authentic.

Charlot:
human conversation.

Paul Brewer:
Yeah.

Charlot:
But yeah, so it's... I think there's more output. Obviously, there's not just

Paul Brewer:
Just

Charlot:
the classic

Paul Brewer:
a classic

Charlot:
TV

Paul Brewer:
TV.

Charlot:
ads anymore. I think the way people perceive brands has changed a lot. I think brands have really learned... that people can pause the TV so you need to get your message across in a cool way no one

Paul Brewer:
no

Charlot:
wants

Paul Brewer:
one

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
wants

Charlot:
listen

Paul Brewer:
to listen

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
like an awful

Paul Brewer:
an awful

Charlot:
voiceover

Paul Brewer:
voiceover

Charlot:
that's gonna

Paul Brewer:
that's going

Charlot:
sell

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
you

Paul Brewer:
sell

Charlot:
a product

Paul Brewer:
you a product

Charlot:
but if

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
they

Paul Brewer:
if they

Charlot:
play

Paul Brewer:
play

Charlot:
a song

Paul Brewer:
a song

Charlot:
you might

Paul Brewer:
you might

Charlot:
actually

Paul Brewer:
actually

Charlot:
walk

Paul Brewer:
walk

Charlot:
to the

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
kitchen

Paul Brewer:
the kitchen

Charlot:
to get a

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
drink

Paul Brewer:
get a

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
drink

Charlot:
it's like

Paul Brewer:
and it's like oh!

Charlot:
oh what am I hearing and then it's like oh is this Coca-Cola? Yeah so

Paul Brewer:
Yes,

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
I think

Charlot:
it's safe

Paul Brewer:
it's

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
safe

Charlot:
say

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
say

Charlot:
currently

Paul Brewer:
that currently

Charlot:
it's pretty

Paul Brewer:
it's pretty.

Charlot:
cool, it can be But every band, at least the artists that we work with, we represent them, so it's always their choice. We can only advise and help kind of honour their creative wishes in that sense.

Paul Brewer:
So the whole think business will have grown a lot because the income streams are much reduced, particularly with the streaming. So has that been a sort of an advantage for you with that? How the whole thing works? Yeah.

Charlot:
Yeah, I mean, if

Paul Brewer:
If

Charlot:
I just

Paul Brewer:
I just

Charlot:
made my

Paul Brewer:
made my

Charlot:
annual report and I think in a, you know, in a year's time, the amount of requests for us, probably good to mention that my team, we do, we're a team of three and we do all sync activity for the world excluding the US, whereas usually the UK and France are the biggest territories for us. But within a year's time, I think the amount of requests we received, so direct deal requests, increased by like 50 or 55%. And this is,

Paul Brewer:
the UK

Charlot:
you

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
know,

Paul Brewer:
France are the biggest territories

Charlot:
after COVID.

Paul Brewer:
for us. But within a year's time, I think the amount of requests we receive, so direct deal requests, increased by like 50 or 55 percent. So is that from the so is that

Charlot:
Businesses.

Paul Brewer:
from the bands or the, you

Charlot:
Yeah.

Paul Brewer:
know, the businesses looking

Charlot:
Yeah

Paul Brewer:
for? Right. Yeah. And therefore

Charlot:
So it's

Paul Brewer:
it will it'll drive the band's part as well.

Charlot:
Yeah, yeah, and obviously I'm speaking

Paul Brewer:
I'm speaking.

Charlot:
on of the catalogue as a whole. So there's obviously particular artists that get requested a lot. Like we signed Wetleg two years ago. That's part of why we've seen a huge spike in requests, but not just them. Yeah, it's just, I think, company-wide, I think

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
industry-wide

Paul Brewer:
think in this.

Charlot:
even. And yeah, just it's continuously growing.

Paul Brewer:
So like you spoke about the likes of the big TV series, whatever, and, you know, our idea of an ad up until this point. So where does it go? Does it go into, you know, does it go into TikTok ads, stuff like that, or, you know, does it become smaller and broader and stuff like that?

Charlot:
Yeah,

Paul Brewer:
Or does it?

Charlot:
I think generally what is a big advantage for advertisers is that because it's more digital focused now, it's way easier to target your audience. Whereas if it was TV, you know, there were some like testing methods, but don't really know how accurate that was. How do you actually know? which members of the family are in that room watching the ads. So I think

Paul Brewer:
I

Charlot:
because

Paul Brewer:
think because

Charlot:
it can be

Paul Brewer:
it can

Charlot:
so

Paul Brewer:
be

Charlot:
much

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
more

Paul Brewer:
much

Charlot:
specific

Paul Brewer:
more specific

Charlot:
now,

Paul Brewer:
now instead

Charlot:
instead of making

Paul Brewer:
of making

Charlot:
one gigantic

Paul Brewer:
one gigantic

Charlot:
campaign

Paul Brewer:
campaign

Charlot:
that is

Paul Brewer:
that's

Charlot:
just being

Paul Brewer:
just being

Charlot:
pushed

Paul Brewer:
pushed

Charlot:
to the

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
masses,

Paul Brewer:
the masses

Charlot:
and also especially

Paul Brewer:
and also especially

Charlot:
after Covid,

Paul Brewer:
after COVID

Charlot:
where

Paul Brewer:
where

Charlot:
times

Paul Brewer:
times

Charlot:
were

Paul Brewer:
were

Charlot:
uncertain,

Paul Brewer:
uncertain

Charlot:
brands

Paul Brewer:
brands

Charlot:
were a bit more

Paul Brewer:
were

Charlot:
reluctant

Paul Brewer:
a bit more reluctant

Charlot:
to spend

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
spend

Charlot:
huge

Paul Brewer:
huge

Charlot:
budget

Paul Brewer:
budgets

Charlot:
all at

Paul Brewer:
all

Charlot:
once.

Paul Brewer:
at once

Charlot:
We've

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
definitely

Paul Brewer:
we've definitely

Charlot:
seen a

Paul Brewer:
seen a

Charlot:
shift towards

Paul Brewer:
shift towards

Charlot:
more

Paul Brewer:
more

Charlot:
short

Paul Brewer:
short

Charlot:
form

Paul Brewer:
form

Charlot:
digital

Paul Brewer:
digital

Charlot:
content,

Paul Brewer:
content

Charlot:
more market specific, but it

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
also

Paul Brewer:
it also

Charlot:
means

Paul Brewer:
means

Charlot:
lower budgets,

Paul Brewer:
lower budgets

Charlot:
but

Paul Brewer:
but

Charlot:
more opportunities.

Paul Brewer:
more opportunities. More of them, yeah. Yeah.

Charlot:
which I guess for artists is quite good because

Paul Brewer:
good because

Charlot:
the chances

Paul Brewer:
the chances

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
you'll land

Paul Brewer:
you'll

Charlot:
this

Paul Brewer:
land

Charlot:
gigantic

Paul Brewer:
this gigantic

Charlot:
car

Paul Brewer:
car

Charlot:
TV

Paul Brewer:
TV

Charlot:
ad,

Paul Brewer:
ad,

Charlot:
they're

Paul Brewer:
they're

Charlot:
tiny,

Paul Brewer:
tiny,

Charlot:
you know? It's

Paul Brewer:
it's

Charlot:
almost

Paul Brewer:
almost

Charlot:
next to

Paul Brewer:
next to

Charlot:
nothing

Paul Brewer:
nothing.

Charlot:
that you'll ever land one of those, but because there's way more output now, it's just, you know, it's just more, the pond is bigger now, I guess.

Paul Brewer:
So is a think company essentially a record company now?

Charlot:
There's different kinds of companies. So I guess most labels and publishers will have sync teams because they obviously have usually exclusive deals with their artists or writers to either own or represent their rights, whether that's master rights or publishing rights. But for artists that are on site, there are also sync agencies. They usually work... either exclusively or non-exclusively and they will represent your either masters or publishing for a period of time but focused on pitching for sync so they won't do your royalty administration or your i don't know ppl or prs

Paul Brewer:
or PRS

Charlot:
registrations

Paul Brewer:
registrations,

Charlot:
but they will

Paul Brewer:
but they

Charlot:
merely

Paul Brewer:
will merely

Charlot:
just

Paul Brewer:
just

Charlot:
represent

Paul Brewer:
represent

Charlot:
you for

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
sync

Paul Brewer:
for sync,

Charlot:
which is

Paul Brewer:
which is

Charlot:
you know a good

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
option

Paul Brewer:
good option

Charlot:
if you're

Paul Brewer:
if

Charlot:
not

Paul Brewer:
you're not

Charlot:
at the

Paul Brewer:
at

Charlot:
level yet

Paul Brewer:
the

Charlot:
where

Paul Brewer:
level yet.

Charlot:
you're assigned, or if you just wanna

Paul Brewer:
or if

Charlot:
do

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
it

Paul Brewer:
just

Charlot:
all yourself,

Paul Brewer:
want to do it all yourself.

Charlot:
that's an option as well.

Paul Brewer:
So is that similar to a single deal with a record company then? You know, that sort of.

Charlot:
I mean, I guess it's just a different kind of service, isn't it?

Paul Brewer:
Like, you're my first chat to a person involved in Think. So I'm learning about

Charlot:
Oh,

Paul Brewer:
this as well. Yes,

Charlot:
right.

Paul Brewer:
indeed.

Charlot:
Okay.

Paul Brewer:
You may be the last

Charlot:
That's great.

Paul Brewer:
one as well. So we'll see. So I'm trying to understand it as well.

Charlot:
Hmm,

Paul Brewer:
So

Charlot:
I think

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
you

Paul Brewer:
it's.

Charlot:
should see it more as sync is just one of the departments within a label or publisher

Paul Brewer:
this year.

Charlot:
I think traditionally where you have like the promotions department. There is one person for press Or you know, even like print press or digital press. There's one radio person I guess what we're doing

Paul Brewer:
doing

Charlot:
in sync

Paul Brewer:
in

Charlot:
as

Paul Brewer:
sync

Charlot:
well. You're

Paul Brewer:
as well

Charlot:
you're in

Paul Brewer:
you're

Charlot:
a way

Paul Brewer:
in the

Charlot:
you're

Paul Brewer:
way

Charlot:
plugging

Paul Brewer:
you're plugging

Charlot:
the music

Paul Brewer:
the music

Charlot:
and But what I like about sync is that we're not part of this campaign, you know,

Paul Brewer:
You

Charlot:
it's

Paul Brewer:
know,

Charlot:
like when an album

Paul Brewer:
when an

Charlot:
comes

Paul Brewer:
album comes

Charlot:
out you kind

Paul Brewer:
out you

Charlot:
of have,

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
what,

Paul Brewer:
of have,

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
what,

Charlot:
six

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
six

Charlot:
eight

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
weeks

Paul Brewer:
eight weeks

Charlot:
to plug

Paul Brewer:
to plug

Charlot:
a record

Paul Brewer:
a record

Charlot:
and to

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
get

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
get

Charlot:
results,

Paul Brewer:
the results.

Charlot:
whereas

Paul Brewer:
Yes.

Charlot:
in sync, like,

Paul Brewer:
Where you

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
sync,

Charlot:
track

Paul Brewer:
like, the track

Charlot:
age really

Paul Brewer:
age

Charlot:
doesn't

Paul Brewer:
really

Charlot:
matter.

Paul Brewer:
doesn't matter. It's just, whether it does the job.

Charlot:
Yeah,

Paul Brewer:
Yeah.

Charlot:
it's way more timeless. The focus is more on the genre or the mood or the lyrical theme. But at the same time, you know, if you look at certain series,

Paul Brewer:
series

Charlot:
like let's

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
say

Paul Brewer:
let's say

Charlot:
Stranger

Paul Brewer:
Stranger

Charlot:
Things

Paul Brewer:
Things

Charlot:
has a

Paul Brewer:
has

Charlot:
huge

Paul Brewer:
a huge

Charlot:
like 80s

Paul Brewer:
80s

Charlot:
focus.

Paul Brewer:
focus

Charlot:
So,

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
you know, we've got

Paul Brewer:
we've

Charlot:
some

Paul Brewer:
got

Charlot:
80s

Paul Brewer:
some 80s

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
music

Charlot:
in our

Paul Brewer:
in

Charlot:
catalog

Paul Brewer:
our catalogue

Charlot:
and it just,

Paul Brewer:
and it's just...

Charlot:
you know, keeps on getting requested all the time. And

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
I guess what

Paul Brewer:
I guess

Charlot:
I always

Paul Brewer:
what I

Charlot:
tell

Paul Brewer:
always tell

Charlot:
artists

Paul Brewer:
artists

Charlot:
who might be

Paul Brewer:
who

Charlot:
a bit might have

Paul Brewer:
might

Charlot:
their

Paul Brewer:
have

Charlot:
hopes

Paul Brewer:
their hopes

Charlot:
up and

Paul Brewer:
up

Charlot:
they're

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
releasing

Paul Brewer:
they're releasing

Charlot:
a record

Paul Brewer:
a record

Charlot:
in the next

Paul Brewer:
in the

Charlot:
three

Paul Brewer:
next

Charlot:
months

Paul Brewer:
three months

Charlot:
and then in

Paul Brewer:
and then

Charlot:
five

Paul Brewer:
in five

Charlot:
months they're

Paul Brewer:
months

Charlot:
really

Paul Brewer:
they're

Charlot:
disappointed

Paul Brewer:
really disappointed

Charlot:
because they

Paul Brewer:
because

Charlot:
haven't

Paul Brewer:
they haven't

Charlot:
had a

Paul Brewer:
had

Charlot:
sink

Paul Brewer:
a sync

Charlot:
yet.

Paul Brewer:
yet. I

Charlot:
I always

Paul Brewer:
always

Charlot:
reassure

Paul Brewer:
reassure

Charlot:
them because

Paul Brewer:
them, it's

Charlot:
it's like it's not a campaign

Paul Brewer:
not a campaign,

Charlot:
you know it's

Paul Brewer:
you know?

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
It's

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
music

Paul Brewer:
the music

Charlot:
is timeless

Paul Brewer:
is timeless

Charlot:
in a way

Paul Brewer:
anyway

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
sometimes

Paul Brewer:
sometimes

Charlot:
you know it takes

Paul Brewer:
it takes...

Charlot:
two days

Paul Brewer:
two days

Charlot:
and sometimes

Paul Brewer:
and sometimes

Charlot:
it takes

Paul Brewer:
it takes

Charlot:
two years

Paul Brewer:
two years until

Charlot:
until

Paul Brewer:
a song lands.

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
song

Paul Brewer:
I guess

Charlot:
lands

Paul Brewer:
the only thing that we can guarantee is

Charlot:
and I guess

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
the only thing

Paul Brewer:
we create

Charlot:
that

Paul Brewer:
those

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
opportunities.

Charlot:
can guarantee

Paul Brewer:
We can't guarantee

Charlot:
is that

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
it will actually

Charlot:
create

Paul Brewer:
land because

Charlot:
those

Paul Brewer:
that's

Charlot:
opportunities

Paul Brewer:
subject to so many decision makers and

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
other factors that are

Charlot:
but we can't

Paul Brewer:
out

Charlot:
guarantee that it will

Paul Brewer:
of

Charlot:
actually

Paul Brewer:
my

Charlot:
land

Paul Brewer:
control.

Charlot:
because that's, you know, just subject to so many decision makers and yeah, other factors that are out of my control.

Paul Brewer:
So what's the oldest piece of music you've represented? Or

Charlot:
Ooh, the

Paul Brewer:
you've

Charlot:
oldest.

Paul Brewer:
had success with?

Charlot:
I think with Domino, I think our stuff probably starts in the 80s, we've signed, which is publishing

Paul Brewer:
which is publishing

Charlot:
side. There

Paul Brewer:
side,

Charlot:
is a big

Paul Brewer:
there is

Charlot:
difference

Paul Brewer:
a big difference

Charlot:
in the Domino Records side and publishing side. They're two separate companies, but also kind of one. But the publishing catalog, we have a lot for which we don't rep the masters as well. So I guess we have some 80s catalog there. We've got... one writer from the

Paul Brewer:
from

Charlot:
Human

Paul Brewer:
the Human

Charlot:
League,

Paul Brewer:
League,

Charlot:
with Suzy

Paul Brewer:
Susie

Charlot:
in the Benchies,

Paul Brewer:
and the Benshees,

Charlot:
or at least

Paul Brewer:
or at

Charlot:
one

Paul Brewer:
least

Charlot:
of the

Paul Brewer:
one

Charlot:
writers.

Paul Brewer:
of the writers, and

Charlot:
Visage,

Paul Brewer:
Visage,

Charlot:
there's

Paul Brewer:
there's

Charlot:
a lot of

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
lot

Charlot:
kind

Paul Brewer:
of that

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
kind of

Charlot:
80s,

Paul Brewer:
80s

Charlot:
old 80s synth pop that

Paul Brewer:
pop

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
that

Charlot:
love.

Paul Brewer:
I love. Indeed.

Charlot:
And then, you know, we've got like the Jesus

Paul Brewer:
And then we've

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
got like

Charlot:
Mary

Paul Brewer:
the Jesus

Charlot:
chain.

Paul Brewer:
and

Charlot:
So there's,

Paul Brewer:
Mary chain,

Charlot:
yeah,

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
it kind

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
starts

Paul Brewer:
of starts

Charlot:
in that

Paul Brewer:
in that

Charlot:
era.

Paul Brewer:
era.

Charlot:
So

Paul Brewer:
Right,

Charlot:
yeah,

Paul Brewer:
yeah.

Charlot:
sometimes

Paul Brewer:
Sometimes

Charlot:
a client

Paul Brewer:
a client

Charlot:
comes to

Paul Brewer:
comes

Charlot:
us

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
and is

Paul Brewer:
us

Charlot:
like,

Paul Brewer:
and is like,

Charlot:
oh, we need

Paul Brewer:
oh, any

Charlot:
classical,

Paul Brewer:
classical

Charlot:
orchestral,

Paul Brewer:
orchestral

Charlot:
piece

Paul Brewer:
piece

Charlot:
from

Paul Brewer:
from...

Charlot:
the 1940s and I'm like, I can't help you with that, sorry.

Paul Brewer:
Right.

Charlot:
But

Paul Brewer:
And

Charlot:
yeah.

Paul Brewer:
do people ever make music like you say you get the spec from somebody else, you know, who are making a TV series or whatever and to say, can we get a bit of music like that made in another fashion? Do you do work with that sort of area

Charlot:
Yeah,

Paul Brewer:
or?

Charlot:
we definitely do bespoke projects as well. I guess

Paul Brewer:
I guess

Charlot:
how you were

Paul Brewer:
how

Charlot:
briefing

Paul Brewer:
you were briefing

Charlot:
it is

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
more

Paul Brewer:
is more

Charlot:
kind of like

Paul Brewer:
kind

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
of

Charlot:
sound

Paul Brewer:
like a sound-alike,

Charlot:
alike, which

Paul Brewer:
which

Charlot:
it happens

Paul Brewer:
it happens

Charlot:
a lot,

Paul Brewer:
a lot

Charlot:
but probably

Paul Brewer:
but probably

Charlot:
less

Paul Brewer:
less

Charlot:
so

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
when clients

Paul Brewer:
when clients

Charlot:
are

Paul Brewer:
are

Charlot:
asking

Paul Brewer:
asking

Charlot:
a specific

Paul Brewer:
a specific

Charlot:
composer

Paul Brewer:
composer

Charlot:
that's also

Paul Brewer:
that's

Charlot:
an

Paul Brewer:
also

Charlot:
artist.

Paul Brewer:
an artist.

Charlot:
Like, let's

Paul Brewer:
Like

Charlot:
say

Paul Brewer:
let's

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
say

Charlot:
work

Paul Brewer:
we work

Charlot:
with

Paul Brewer:
with

Charlot:
Son

Paul Brewer:
song-lucks

Charlot:
Luxe, who have

Paul Brewer:
who

Charlot:
just

Paul Brewer:
have just

Charlot:
done the

Paul Brewer:
done

Charlot:
score

Paul Brewer:
the score

Charlot:
for

Paul Brewer:
for...

Charlot:
Everything Everywhere All At Once, which was, you know, nominated and won all these Oscars and other awards. So guess

Paul Brewer:
Say

Charlot:
if

Paul Brewer:
Oscar

Charlot:
someone

Paul Brewer:
again there.

Charlot:
would...

Paul Brewer:
Oscar? Did I say it weird? Is that

Charlot:
Oscars? Do I say it weird? Do I say my Dutch accent?

Paul Brewer:
my Dutch accent? That's the first of the Dutch word I've really heard

Charlot:
Ah!

Paul Brewer:
you say. It's not in there, it's in somewhere.

Charlot:
It's still in there, you know? It's still in there somewhere.

Paul Brewer:
Yeah, indeed, indeed. Very good, very good. Continue.

Charlot:
But yeah, if a client would come to us and be like, oh, can the guys from Sunlux basically make a sound

Paul Brewer:
make a

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
sound like

Charlot:
this,

Paul Brewer:
this

Charlot:
then we probably

Paul Brewer:
then we

Charlot:
politely

Paul Brewer:
probably politely

Charlot:
pass.

Paul Brewer:
pass. Right.

Charlot:
But

Paul Brewer:
But

Charlot:
about

Paul Brewer:
about

Charlot:
the same

Paul Brewer:
the

Charlot:
band,

Paul Brewer:
same

Charlot:
yeah,

Paul Brewer:
band,

Charlot:
we

Paul Brewer:
yeah we

Charlot:
actually at

Paul Brewer:
actually

Charlot:
the moment,

Paul Brewer:
at the moment...

Charlot:
I'm working on negotiating a potential work for hire piece for a luxury brand. commercial because they love their music and what we then negotiate is that they will get almost complete freedom, artistic freedom, obviously within a certain brief but if we work on bespoke stuff it's usually because they really enjoy the artist or writer's work and just want something unique for their movie or it could be a film score for example so yeah.

Paul Brewer:
So that's a writer sort of writing to brief in the style of in their own style. That's essentially right. Does that happen much or?

Charlot:
It does happen a lot, yeah. For me as a sing person,

Paul Brewer:
in person

Charlot:
it's

Paul Brewer:
it's

Charlot:
a bit of

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
bit

Charlot:
hate

Paul Brewer:
of a

Charlot:
love

Paul Brewer:
hate love

Charlot:
situation

Paul Brewer:
situation.

Charlot:
because we already

Paul Brewer:
We

Charlot:
have

Paul Brewer:
already have

Charlot:
a catalog of 60,000 songs ready to go, which is just like, you know, quick

Paul Brewer:
a catalogue

Charlot:
license

Paul Brewer:
of 60,000

Charlot:
negotiation

Paul Brewer:
songs ready to go. Which is just... Won't one of those

Charlot:
and done.

Paul Brewer:
do?

Charlot:
And the spoke projects obviously require a lot more time. The deal negotiation process is... unique with every project. There's not a set kind of, there's so many parameters that you're negotiating. So it's just,

Paul Brewer:
So

Charlot:
yeah, it's way more time

Paul Brewer:
it's just,

Charlot:
consuming

Paul Brewer:
yeah, it's way more time

Charlot:
and

Paul Brewer:
consuming.

Charlot:
then

Paul Brewer:
And then

Charlot:
it's still

Paul Brewer:
it's still

Charlot:
a pitch.

Paul Brewer:
a pitch.

Charlot:
Usually

Paul Brewer:
Usually

Charlot:
two

Paul Brewer:
two

Charlot:
or three

Paul Brewer:
or three

Charlot:
composers

Paul Brewer:
composers

Charlot:
get to

Paul Brewer:
get to

Charlot:
demo

Paul Brewer:
demo

Charlot:
for a

Paul Brewer:
for

Charlot:
job

Paul Brewer:
a job

Charlot:
and then

Paul Brewer:
and then

Charlot:
everyone

Paul Brewer:
everyone

Charlot:
gets

Paul Brewer:
gets

Charlot:
paid

Paul Brewer:
paid

Charlot:
obviously

Paul Brewer:
obviously

Charlot:
for demos,

Paul Brewer:
for demos.

Charlot:
but

Paul Brewer:
But

Charlot:
it's a

Paul Brewer:
it's

Charlot:
lot

Paul Brewer:
a

Charlot:
of

Paul Brewer:
lot

Charlot:
work

Paul Brewer:
of work.

Charlot:
and sometimes

Paul Brewer:
And sometimes

Charlot:
we might

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
not

Paul Brewer:
might

Charlot:
be

Paul Brewer:
not

Charlot:
able

Paul Brewer:
be able

Charlot:
to retain

Paul Brewer:
to retain

Charlot:
publishing

Paul Brewer:
publishing

Charlot:
rights.

Paul Brewer:
rights. That's complex. It's been complex,

Charlot:
It's a bit more complex, yes. It's not

Paul Brewer:
yes.

Charlot:
my

Paul Brewer:
Yeah.

Charlot:
favourite

Paul Brewer:
It's my favorite

Charlot:
thing.

Paul Brewer:
thing.

Charlot:
Ha ha ha.

Paul Brewer:
Yes, indeed, indeed. So when you say everybody gets paid, for doing the demo and submitting work. What sort of figure is that?

Charlot:
I mean, it depends whether it's like ads or film, but let's say for an ad, there's always

Paul Brewer:
I think there's

Charlot:
different

Paul Brewer:
always different

Charlot:
tiers,

Paul Brewer:
tiers,

Charlot:
but I guess

Paul Brewer:
but I guess...

Charlot:
for the kinds of bands and artists that we work with, it's probably, we would kind of start at maybe like 2000 pounds or euros depending on the country, but yeah, that's usually where you

Paul Brewer:
That's

Charlot:
start.

Paul Brewer:
usually where you start.

Charlot:
And that's just

Paul Brewer:
And that's

Charlot:
for

Paul Brewer:
just for

Charlot:
the writer.

Paul Brewer:
the writer.

Charlot:
We wouldn't

Paul Brewer:
We

Charlot:
take

Paul Brewer:
wouldn't take

Charlot:
a share of

Paul Brewer:
a sheriff.

Charlot:
that. The publisher or label would only take a cut from the final fee, which is usually a way higher number.

Paul Brewer:
Right. So I make me a demo. I submit it and it's accepted as an idea. So what happens then? So I've already been paid for that work that won't, you know, I'll be able to put a week into it or whatever.

Charlot:
Yeah.

Paul Brewer:
I made a good track for you. I'm getting some money. I'm happy enough with that. What happens then? I submit the track to you or. How does it go? Yeah,

Charlot:
Yeah,

Paul Brewer:
so.

Charlot:
so if I was your publisher,

Paul Brewer:
your publisher

Charlot:
then

Paul Brewer:
then

Charlot:
obviously our clients,

Paul Brewer:
our client

Charlot:
which is

Paul Brewer:
which

Charlot:
usually

Paul Brewer:
is

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
usually

Charlot:
an ad

Paul Brewer:
like an

Charlot:
agency,

Paul Brewer:
ad agency

Charlot:
they would

Paul Brewer:
they would

Charlot:
brief

Paul Brewer:
brief

Charlot:
you,

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
they would,

Paul Brewer:
they would

Charlot:
if they

Paul Brewer:
if

Charlot:
pick

Paul Brewer:
they pick

Charlot:
your demo,

Paul Brewer:
your demo

Charlot:
then

Paul Brewer:
then

Charlot:
we usually

Paul Brewer:
we

Charlot:
agree

Paul Brewer:
usually agree

Charlot:
on a number

Paul Brewer:
on a number

Charlot:
of revisions.

Paul Brewer:
of revisions

Charlot:
Sometimes

Paul Brewer:
sometimes

Charlot:
you

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
your demo

Paul Brewer:
your demo

Charlot:
could be

Paul Brewer:
could be

Charlot:
only like

Paul Brewer:
only

Charlot:
30

Paul Brewer:
like 30

Charlot:
seconds

Paul Brewer:
seconds

Charlot:
and for the final, they might require like a full length. Or

Paul Brewer:
So that's

Charlot:
then

Paul Brewer:
five minutes song, whatever.

Charlot:
for ads. It's always something between 15 and 60 seconds. TV ads are usually you know

Paul Brewer:
seconds.

Charlot:
15

Paul Brewer:
Right. 15

Charlot:
to 30

Paul Brewer:
to 30

Charlot:
seconds.

Paul Brewer:
seconds.

Charlot:
Online

Paul Brewer:
Online

Charlot:
versions

Paul Brewer:
versions

Charlot:
might be

Paul Brewer:
might be,

Charlot:
you know

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
a minute.

Paul Brewer:
know, a minute.

Charlot:
In some cases

Paul Brewer:
In some cases

Charlot:
they would

Paul Brewer:
they

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
would

Charlot:
to

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
release

Paul Brewer:
to release

Charlot:
the track

Paul Brewer:
the track

Charlot:
so

Paul Brewer:
so

Charlot:
it might

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
be

Paul Brewer:
might

Charlot:
like

Paul Brewer:
be

Charlot:
a

Paul Brewer:
like

Charlot:
full

Paul Brewer:
a full

Charlot:
length.

Paul Brewer:
falling.

Charlot:
But yeah it really depends on the project. revisions, creative revisions and then mix rounds Because you just don't want to you know, keep going endlessly. That's not fair within a certain budget And then yeah, you

Paul Brewer:
Yeah,

Charlot:
deliver

Paul Brewer:
you

Charlot:
it to the client. Maybe

Paul Brewer:
deliver

Charlot:
they might add some sound design or a voiceover and then

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
It's

Paul Brewer:
to

Charlot:
ready

Paul Brewer:
the

Charlot:
for the ad.

Paul Brewer:
client.

Charlot:
Yeah

Paul Brewer:
Maybe they might add some sound design or voice over and then it's ready for the ads. And is there ever any different mixes? Is there, you know, is there a mix for TikTok and a mix for the cinema? Are they different? Are they or things like that? Does that ever

Charlot:
I'd

Paul Brewer:
happen

Charlot:
say

Paul Brewer:
or

Charlot:
I

Paul Brewer:
is there

Charlot:
mean

Paul Brewer:
an

Charlot:
for cinema

Paul Brewer:
Atmos

Charlot:
I guess

Paul Brewer:
mix?

Charlot:
Yeah, I'm at most For ads I'm not so sure but yeah I mean if cinema is part of the media plan then that requires a different mix But I have to say

Paul Brewer:
Stay

Charlot:
on my

Paul Brewer:
on my

Charlot:
side

Paul Brewer:
side.

Charlot:
Don't We're not involved in that too much because that's more like once we've delivered the creative being the composition.

Paul Brewer:
or

Charlot:
What

Paul Brewer:
write

Charlot:
does

Paul Brewer:
a can.

Charlot:
happen a lot is that there might be different voiceovers for different territories, different languages. or sometimes there's different instrumentations used for different markets.

Paul Brewer:
Really?

Charlot:
Yeah, for example, like Coca-Cola, what they do, you know, let's say like they might have the same composition or same, you know, like sound logo or particular chord progression. Then for, let's say if they were to create like the Middle East film, same as they might use different actors that are more representative of... the people there could be the same situation with instruments as well, or different keys even.

Paul Brewer:
Really? So from what looks like on the outside, a relatively simple process, putting a bit of music in with an ad, it could turn into a monumental bit of work.

Charlot:
Yeah,

Paul Brewer:
Right,

Charlot:
could

Paul Brewer:
OK.

Charlot:
be. That's why I said I prefer just to do like putting

Paul Brewer:
Yeah, yeah. You're

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
putting

Charlot:
song

Paul Brewer:
this

Charlot:
in an ad.

Paul Brewer:
song in an ad? Yes, indeed, yeah,

Charlot:
Now

Paul Brewer:
yeah.

Charlot:
honestly both are really interesting

Paul Brewer:
interesting

Charlot:
processes.

Paul Brewer:
processes

Charlot:
I've done

Paul Brewer:
I've

Charlot:
both.

Paul Brewer:
done.

Charlot:
It's really interesting

Paul Brewer:
It's really interesting

Charlot:
how complex

Paul Brewer:
how

Charlot:
it

Paul Brewer:
complex

Charlot:
can

Paul Brewer:
it

Charlot:
be

Paul Brewer:
can

Charlot:
and how

Paul Brewer:
be

Charlot:
great

Paul Brewer:
and how great

Charlot:
some of those

Paul Brewer:
some of those

Charlot:
results

Paul Brewer:
results

Charlot:
can be.

Paul Brewer:
can be. Yeah,

Charlot:
It's interesting. Yeah, I don't

Paul Brewer:
it's interesting.

Charlot:
hate

Paul Brewer:
But yeah,

Charlot:
just

Paul Brewer:
I don't hate

Charlot:
the

Paul Brewer:
just

Charlot:
quick...

Paul Brewer:
the quick

Charlot:
License

Paul Brewer:
license.

Charlot:
either.